Engaging stakeholders in changing times

Welcome to the Eclipse Podcast. I'm your host, Toni McKee. Stakeholder engagement is all about building deeper connections and stronger relationships with stakeholders. But this can be difficult when you haven't walked in your stakeholder's shoes.

That's not a problem for today's guest, Charlotte Cool. Charlotte is a senior corporate affairs and communications leader with 25 years’ experience working with and for FTSE UK and global brands. But her experience goes well beyond the corporate world. She has worn the shoes of various stakeholders, which puts her in a unique position to take a 360 degree view of how to engage them.We're going to talk about all of this today.

Welcome to the podcast, Charlotte.

Thank you. Thank you, Toni Hi.

Hi. Thanks so much for taking the time to talk with me today. I think it's really interesting that you have so much experience, as we said in the intro, working with different stakeholders, but also being these stakeholders. Can you summarize this experience in your own words?

Well, I'll have a go at that. This is going to age me for sure. So, I started my professional career in the '90s and actually, we're sort of coming full cycle round, in terms of UK politics anyway, to where I began, because I was a parliamentary researcher for a Labour politician in the three years building up to that very historic landslide election that Tony Blair won in 1997. It was very formative in my career and perhaps we're on the brink of something similar at the moment. But that certainly gave me this huge grounding in not only learning sort of the... ways of parliamentary business, but also it was my first experience of enormous transformation. I absolutely witnessed the way the political party streamlined itself.

It prioritized, it elected a leader who had a really strong narrative and I suppose all those ingredients I've taken with me. But anyway, that was sort of a political experience but I've also worked inside a trade union back in those days.

And I've worked for companies on both sides of the producer-supplier dynamic, which is one that I find very interesting. And I've also worked in news and media organisations, which is a huge privilege, particularly as businesses spend a lot of time trying to be represented fairly and in the right way by news media and to have sort of sat in the newsroom and understood how news is shaped from the other side.

I've also worked inside NGOs who often are another thorn in the side of businesses, but for good reason. They're agitating for change, for positive change, and having worked with some of those stakeholders, I have a good understanding of where they're coming from. Then just a final example, I've worked inside and also led industry bodies, which are representing the whole of a sector. And that's not a straightforward alignment because there are very differing shapes and sizes and interests of businesses within a sector.

So that's my experience. But I think what I realised having worked in some of those stakeholder groups early in my career and then joining a big business for the first time as a leader in corporate affairs is that, I guess I'd call it being multi lingual and I'd underestimated how little those languages are necessarily known or understood in businesses and I've worked with some brilliant business leaders who are absolutely expert and top of their game in their fields, but often they've worked in one business.

I've worked with many lifers who've worked in just that single business and made their way up from the shop floor as a graduate to lead the business, or others that have worked in adjacent sectors or worked within one industry sector, so they're absolutely fluent in the language of that business and the industry sector they're in. But not necessarily and actually quite nervous, uncomfortable, vulnerable in some of these stakeholder relationships where it really does require speaking a completely different language, and that's a verbal language, but also body language, if you might call it that, just the sort of understanding of the different motivations of other stakeholder groups.

So, I've realised that this ability to be multilingual is where, in my role, you can really add value as a translator and as a coach and helping other leaders to gain some of that comfort and fluency around stakeholder relationships.

So, does this fluency, does this sort of frame, form the foundation of your overall approach to engagement strategy, would you say?

Yes, and you've got to keep it up to date. So, there's not a sort of moment in time where you tick a box and say, right, oh, I can speak the language of the competition regulator or, oh, yes, I've got politics or whatever the interest group might be because those things are always changing, which is what makes it interesting. So, yes, you've gotta have, I mean, that's the core of the strategy, but you have to keep up to date. Continue to spend time with those stakeholders and practice this language that I'm talking about.

Okay. So, how can you tell right now if a company's approach to stakeholder engagement is actually relevant and if it's being effective? What are the sort of signs that you can tell either it's working or it's not working?

You've got to be vigilant and you've got to keep checking and not to get complacent. And I think one thing I often see is and I experienced it myself, is you get comfortable because you've got a good rhythm of engagement with your stakeholders and you think, "Oh, well, you know, this is fine. It's happening. It's happening on a regular basis." But actually, I would always counsel to take a deeper dive every now and again and step up that engagement, whether that's a conference, you can do it in surveys. It doesn't have to be face -to -face. Make sure also you're having private conversations where stakeholders are giving you the absolute, unvarnished truth because that sort of okay rhythm of stakeholder engagement can give you a sort of false narrative that everything's aligned. And you've got to extract the real feelings and the real sentiment and you know, some of those more challenging positions. And I think private conversation is a great way to do that.

Right, right. There's nothing better than just a private conversation is there in terms of really understanding what your stakeholders is looking for. Today, there are so many companies that are facing some sort of fundamental transformation either if it's with the environment or digitally or competitively. What role do you think stakeholder relations play in achieving transformation for companies?

Well, I think it's one of the most exciting and challenging opportunities. And yeah, change is the only constant, isn't it? But I'm a big believer in walking towards your stakeholders. And as I've described, listening actively, inviting them in. And then the opportunity is to co -create. Use the expertise that your stakeholders have got that is related to the business problems you're trying to solve. But it just, it will enrich I believe, the change that you need. And if it's your employee base, it will help take them with you. Otherwise, you might get resistance. Take your shareholders with you. You don't want them taking an activist position. Regulators, I think regulators often sit in tension with businesses, but you can co -create good regulation and better regulation rather than just an intervention that is unhelpful.

That's a really interesting strategy. I think it's gotten kind of overlooked, hasn't it? I mean, have you worked in a lot of companies or with a lot of companies where you've seen that's a fundamental part of their strategy, the co -creation?

Yes, I have. It's not necessarily the quickest and easiest route because it's sometimes easier to sit in a position of, well, we've got the answers here in the business and we'll go that way and just leave your stakeholders to catch up. Whereas I think then you miss the place that they might sit, which is in opposition and don't build it into something that's more blended along the way, which I think actually gets you a better outcome. And it's the same with customers as a massive stakeholder group. I think that business’s do that bit best because customer feedback is so imperative and immediate, but it's the sort of longer range stakeholders, the regulators, perhaps NGOs that can be problematic, government, where actually my view and I have good experiences, it's better to sort of draw out the tension early on and see if you can get to a place of, may not always be alignment, you know, that's perhaps a bit over-optimistic, but build it into your plans early on rather than hit it later in the change.

That's a really good point, drawing out that tension early on, because then you can actually manage that tension, work with that tension and maybe use it to your advantage in terms of building the relationship. What other challenges do you see companies facing when it comes to managing stakeholder relationships?

I mean, the human nature part of it in this tension is just, it's uncomfortable. It's, if you can avoid that or feel you can avoid it, why wouldn't you? So, I think that is a really understandable reason not to engage more. And then if you allow that disconnect to happen, I actually think you can get to a place where there's a great deal of suspicion between a business and some of its stakeholders. And not that there should be any reason for that level of suspicion of the other sort of motives or position. It just comes out of being disconnected. I think that's human nature. But I think the other, I mean, the other obvious one is time and time pressure and just even more so the last few years, there's been so much challenge and uncertainty in the environment we're in.

So, everybody's busy. Everybody's dealing with these massive black swan events that have tipped businesses upside down. And I think it's even harder to devote the time to something that's medium or longer term in terms of building relationships when you're in that type of situation.

So, time pressure, staekholder engagement not feeling like it's a top priority. I mean, if you're in a crisis, or you're going through a regulatory change right at that moment, then it becomes a priority. But beyond that, I think it's harder to get businesses to do it well. But then something bad happens. You can't switch these relationships on and off. That's the risk.

So then do you think there are different strategies for different periods of the business cycle? Or like you say, if there's a crisis situation, do you take a different approach then to how you manage stakeholder relationships?

Well, I'd always advise keeping relationships in a good place because that will really help you out in a crisis. It won't solve it for you, but it will help the repair hugely. And I'd say that the, you know, back to the sort of time pressure point, there's so much in your calendar of communications as a business that's required of you. That happens regardless of whether you're in a growth phase or a crisis phase or turnaround or whatever, you've just got this always ‘on calendar’ of reporting to the markets. You've got your annual reporting to do, and then lots of extra regulatory requirements in many industries as well. You've got your regular town halls. You've got regular sort of consultations that go on. So, to fit in this sort of deeper connection with stakeholders, the bits that happen in between the formal moments, the conversations that happen privately, off the record, the touch and feel visits for stakeholders to go behind the scenes in your business, those are the bits that I think get missed and at your peril really.

Right, that makes sense. So, I know that in your career, you've also worked in companies that were really focused on employees as a stakeholder group. Is that right?

Well, I’ve worked with some very, very big employers. Yeah. I think Walmart, I worked with Walmart for a while, they're the biggest private sector employer in the world, I think, and some others. So, I've got a perspective that I don't necessarily like the phrase, but blue collar workforce. And so, it's perhaps different to some of the companies that you hear about employee trends within.

For sure. So, I mean, I feel like we hear a lot these days about the growing power of employees as a stakeholder group. Can you reflect on what that means and what it means for companies going forward?

I mean, absolutely. That is a huge huge trend that I think everybody is experiencing. I mean, social media brought in this opportunity for every employee to have a public voice and that's been a big change. And I suppose the last five years or so, I've seen a lot more employees writing directly to senior leaders about issues that they care about, social issues like gender or race or some of those sorts of big challenges, on climate, sort of things like that. So that's not always in the public domain, but I've seen that pressure building.

So, employees are feeling that empowerment as well. They're taking initiative on their own when they have something to say to senior leadership.

Yeah, but I wouldn't, as I said, the businesses I've worked in, in lower wage sectors,

I wouldn't overstate the power of employee activism. Actually, the change that I've seen come about more when it comes to employee welfare has been driven from outside the business.

So, just for example, I worked at John Lewis for a long time and it was probably for about half of that time, one of the big areas of tension and sort of public conversation was around the need for a living wage in a sector like retail. And actually, the pressure, there was some co -creation, I'm happy to say, but the pressure came from outside for that change. And there was a parallel a few years later around modern slavery. So that was employee welfare sort of through global supply chains. So, like I said, I wouldn't overstate employee power in those types of organizations.

Right, I see what you mean. Looking again back at your really broad experience, it seems like you've kind of seen the world change in some ways throughout your career. You've been sort of on the front lines of the way the world has changed and progressed.

Mm, absolutely and worked through periods of huge growth and a buoyant economy. And now we're in a tough spot, aren't we, both in our own sort of domestic economy but I've been listening to some interesting commentators recently on this geopolitical conflict that we're experiencing. And actually, for those really in the know, it feels intense now and more than ever, but apparently not, I suppose it's just something businesses have always had to contend with. We're just in a tight spot right now with all the change that we've experienced around the world.

So, knowing all of that, what do you think the future holds?

I remain optimistic for change. It's difficult, my sense is there's a lot of exhaustion and caution in terms of how businesses feel from the inside. But those things can change quickly and we've got our biggest election year ever 2024. So, there will be a lot of changes in the context around us.

Of course, there's accelerating pressure to deal with the big things. That's where I really hope this co -creation and the sense of a stakeholder economy I think can come back.

I think we've lost that a little, but if we can get it back, we've got to solve these big questions around AI and climate, inequality. I think that is the way to do it. I do remain optimistic, but it's a tough environment.

Tough environment indeed. What about for Charlotte Cool? What does the future hold for you?

Well, professionally, I'm about to enter a new sector. Actually, on a short -term project, I'm joining the airport sector.

Interesting.

So, I'm really looking forward to sort of lifting the lid and learning the language of that world and helping manage through some of those inevitable tensions.

People love to fly and see the world, go on holiday, but of course, for communities that comes with difficulties around noise and environmentally, aviation's a contributor. So really interesting set of stakeholder interests. So, I will be on my learning curve very, very soon.

And personally, I am training to be a foster carer at the moment which will take a few more months. I have three children of my own and I'm not looking to foster full time, but I've got involved with an organisation called Now Foster that is trying to broaden the demographic of people that become foster carers and have foster caring understood in a slightly different way that it's not a sort of full time thing that you can help families and children on a sort of less full time basis. That's what I'm hoping to do.

Wow, that is big. That is a major commitment, isn't it, respect?

Well, I haven't done it yet, but the training, yes. And I'm sort of getting an appreciation through the training of, yeah, what a difficult job foster carers do. And really where I would be stepping in is to support those full-time foster carers really by giving them a break.

 Wow, good for you, that's amazing. Well, you sound like the superhero that your name kind of makes you out to be.

No, I don't think so, I don't think so.

Okay, well, this has been a really good conversation. It's been really interesting speaking to you and inspiring to hear about all your stories and how important it is to actually understand your stakeholders from being in your shoes. I think that's a really interesting way to look at stakeholder engagement.

Yeah, we'll keep trying. Just stay curious, stay open. I think that's the thing.

Perfect.